INTERVIEWER
Major George Parr, you are the RCMP Assistant Deputy Commissioner for Counter-terrorism Intelligence.
GEORGE PARR
Yes, I am.
INTERVIEWER
Thank-you for taking the time to speak to us during a period of what must be considerable strain for the Force.
GEORGE PARR
Yes, it is pretty stressful but we think it's important that the public should fully understand how we approach such barbaric crimes as we have just witnessed, to reassure them that public safety is well protected.
INTERVIEWER
The Prime Minister has said that tougher laws are needed, including "preventative detention."
GEORGE PARR
You'll have to ask him about that. Our job is not to make the law but enforce it as best we can. The job is easier when the public understands our role and supports us.
INTERVIEWER
I'm sure most Canadians would agree. As reported by the CBC, the RCMP Commissioner, Bob Paulson, made the following comments:
Paulson said the video, as reported Sunday by CBC News, was broadly related to Canadian foreign policy and that the gunman makes reference to "Allah" in the video.
"Our belief is that it has not gone anywhere else, but it may have gone elsewhere," Paulson said in remarks to reporters after his appearance Monday before the Senate's national security committee.
News of the video first emerged late Sunday when the RCMP issued a statement announcing its existence and describing it as evidence that Zehaf Bibeau was "driven by ideological and political motives."
Pauslon said investigators don't yet know if Zehaf-Bibeau shared his intentions to launch a violent attack. He added RCMP are working on a "detailed timeline" to satisfy themselves no one else was involved
GEORGE PARR
Yes I am aware of that, but like the Commissioner I can't discuss the details.
INTERVIEWER
And the Prime Minister has repeatedly referred to these events as terrorism.
GEORGE PARR
I am aware of that as well, as you might imagine.
INTERVIEWER
In June of this year, a young man in Moncton named Justin Bourque confessed to the murder of three RCMP officers and the wounding of two others.
GEORGE PARR
Another dark day for the Force. We're following the sentencing hearing closely.
INTERVIEWER
The Prime Minister has not referred to these equally barbaric crimes as "terrorism."
GEORGE PARR
That's because the two are very different.
INTERVIEWER
How so?
GEORGE PARR
I think that's pretty obvious to most people, including the public. There is evidence that Bibeau had made reference to jihad and ISIS and Allah, as Commissioner Paulson has said, and Bibeau was also trying to get to Syria.
INTERVIEWER
I believe that was corrected to Saudi Arabia, a mistranslation of Syria.
GEORGE PARR
Easy to happen, they're both Arab countries in the Middle East and they both start with "S".
INTERVIEWER
Well, let's say it was Syria. How does all that add up to terrorism, whereas that is not the case for Bourque.
GEORGE PARR
As I said, our job is to enforce the law, and in this case that law is in the Criminal Code of Canada.
INTERVIEWER
Section 83.01
GEORGE PARR
Yes. How did you know that?
INTERVIEWER
I read it.
GEORGE PARR
How did you get a copy of the Criminal Code?
INTERVIEWER
It's a public document. Anybody can read it. It's in libraries.
GEORGE PARR
Is that so? The Prime Minister might be on to something.
INTERVIEWER
Are you saying Canadian citizens shouldn't have access to their own laws?
GEORGE PARR
As I said, our job is to enforce the law, which means that if you break it you'll be hearing from us.
INTERVIEWER
Whatever. Terrorism is dealt with in a relatively new section, 83.01.
GEORGE PARR
Is it?
INTERVIEWER
Yes, and the definition seems to relate only to motive.
GEORGE PARR
It's very important, motive.
INTERVIEWER
Well, what was Justin Bourque's motive?
GEORGE PARR
He wanted to kill cops.
INTERVIEWER
But why?
GEORGE PARR
Who knows? The important thing is he gets locked up forever.
INTERVIEWER
You just said motive is crucial to crime.
GEORGE PARR
It's crucial to terrorism, not to crime.
INTERVIEWER
What's the difference?
GEORGE PARR
I think we're going in circles here. It's spelled out in Section 83.01 of the Criminal Code which unfortunately seems to be public knowledge.
INTERVIEWER
So allow me - it being public knowledge - to read the definition of terrorism adopted by the Canadian government.
GEORGE PARR
Sure.
INTERVIEWER
Section 83.01(a) just recites the crimes that were already terrorism before the Air India Flight 182 bombing in 1985.
GEORGE PARR
What Air India bombing?
INTERVIEWER
The one that Justice Major said was due to colossal screw-ups by the Government of Canada and its agencies, despite being told that an attack was imminent, who then tried, and continue to try, to bury the evidence.
GEORGE PARR
Oh that Air India bombing. That was a long time ago. World a different place.
INTERVIEWER
But the part you're talking about is 83.01(b) that defines a terrorist act as....
GEORGE PARR
Wait a minute...
INTERVIEWER
- an act or omission, in or outside Canada,
- (i) that is committed
- (A) in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause, and
- (B) in whole or in part with the intention of intimidating the public, or a segment of the public, with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person, a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act, whether the public or the person, government or organization is inside or outside Canada, and
- (ii) that intentionally
- (A) causes death or serious bodily harm to a person by the use of violence,
- (B) endangers a person’s life,
- (C) causes a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or any segment of the public,
- (D) causes substantial property damage, whether to public or private property, if causing such damage is likely to result in the conduct or harm referred to in any of clauses (A) to (C), or
- (E) causes serious interference with or serious disruption of an essential service, facility or system, whether public or private, other than as a result of advocacy, protest, dissent or stoppage of work that is not intended to result in the conduct or harm referred to in any of clauses (A) to (C),
There you go. Commissioner Paulson is discussing evidence that Bibeau had a "political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause motive." If proven in open court, which unfortunately still seems to be necessary, then he has committed terrorism.
INTERVIEWER
How is that different from Bourque?
GEORGE PARR
Bourque didn't have "political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause."
INTERVIEWER
So what does "ideological" mean, as used in the Criminal Code?
GEORGE PARR
It means the terrorist had an idea.
INTERVIEWER
You're right, we're going in circles. You said before that an idea is what defines the crime of terrorism. Justin Bourque had an idea. He said he wanted to target the oil and gas industry.
GEORGE PARR
Yes, I guess that could make him an eco-terrorist, but the fact is he didn't attack the oil and gas industry, so he's not a terrorist.
INTERVIEWER
I'm getting a little confused...
GEORGE PARR
You shouldn't worry about it and just leave the Criminal Code to us trained professionals.
INTERVIEWER
So what about religious motivation. Are you saying Bibeau had religious motivation?
GEORGE PARR
Duh. He went to a mosque.
INTERVIEWER
About a billion people on the planet go to mosques. So what religious purpose....
GEORGE PARR
No idea, he's dead. I'm not a mind reader.
INTERVIEWER
What about "political?"
GEORGE PARR
That's in Section 83.01?
INTERVIEWER
YES....IT...IS
GEORGE PARR
What does political mean?
INTERVIEWER
THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING YOU!!
GEORGE PARR
I guess it means the terrorist has a political opinion.
INTERVIEWER
And does the RCMP have a Political Squad, so it can tell?
GEORGE PARR
Tell what?
INTERVIEWER
Tell whether a criminal has a political motive, one that would make Bourque a criminal and Bibeau a terrorist.
GEORGE PARR
I'm not aware Bibeau had a political motive, he wanted to be a jihadist.
INTERVIEWER
What's a "jihadist"?
GEORGE PARR
A religious terrorist.
INTERVIEWER
Jesus Christ, we already discussed that. If Bibeau had NOT wanted to be a jihadist, but DID have a political motive, how would you know whether or not he was a terrorist?
GEORGE PARR
Look, I don't want to get into hypotheticals.
INTERVIEWER
So, forget the Criminal Code, what's your definition of a terrorist?
GEORGE PARR
I know one when I see one.
INTERVIEWER
Major George Parr, thanks for talking to us.
GEORGE PARR
No problem. I still can't believe anybody can just read the Criminal Code if they feel like it.
