RON MACLEAN
Welcome back to House of Commons Night in Canada. Don, we've been talking a lot about the Iacobucci appointment, and you've certainly not been in favour of this under the Public Service Employment Act as an "advisor to a minister". Would that be fair comment?
DON CHERRY
That would be putting mildly.
RON MACLEAN
But just so we're clear about this, you're not criticizing Justice Iacobucci himself are you?
DON CHERRY
Absolutely not. He's obviously an A-Team guy, former Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, they don't get any smarter than that. He's done good work for the government on his own inquiry before....
RON MACLEAN
"Internal Inquiry into the Actions of Canadian Officials in Relation to Abdullah Almalki, Ahmad Abou-Elmaati and Muayyed Nureddin", the public report released in October, 2008...
DON CHERRY
...that's the one, and he's obviously taking this Afghan prisoner....I don't know what to call it...
RON MACLEAN
"Thing?"
DON CHERRY
Yeah, "thing" - it sure isn't a Public Inquiry - "thing" on in the public interest, a guy like that wouldn't be in it for anything else...
RON MACLEAN
So what's wrong with his appointment, then?
DON CHERRY
I think he just fell in with the wrong crowd, you know how it goes, a good kid in bad company.
RON MACLEAN
And the bad company in this case being...?
DON CHERRY
The Conservatives.
RON MACLEAN
Conservatives?
DON CHERRY
Not "small c" conservatives, I'm one of them anyway, so its not like I'm going to call myself "bad company"...
RON MACLEAN
...in which case I'd definitely be at risk...
DON CHERRY
Yeah, you already got into trouble, hanging out with me...
RON MACLEAN
...so you're saying the "big C" Conservatives?
DON CHERRY
Yeah, Harper's Conservatives.
RON MACLEAN
Harper's Conservatives have got a pretty loyal following out in hockey country, the West particularly.
DON CHERRY
Yeah, well that's because the government's not Liberals, I can understand that. Bad feeling about the Liberals goes back a long way in the West, farmers start mumbling about the "Crow Rate", and don't even mention the National Energy Policy...
RON MACLEAN
So what gets up your nose about these Conservatives?
DON CHERRY
I think they're a bunch of guys.....
RON MACLEAN
....they're definitely not all guys...
DON CHERRY
...the're a bunch of people who can't tell the difference between their own PR and reality, particularly when it comes to the law. I just get the impression none of these guys - and I'm talking guys here, Harper, MacKay, Nicholson, Hawn - none of these guys gives the impression they've read the law recently, or at all.
RON MACLEAN
Well that's a little much isn't it? There's a lot of law to read, even if you're a lawyer.
DON CHERRY
Ever read the Criminal Code of Canada?
RON MACLEAN
As a matter of fact, no, I've never had occasion to.
DON CHERRY
Right, because you're basically a good guy, or were until you started hanging out with me. But that doesn't mean you're not bound by the Criminal Code, because you are.
RON MACLEAN
Good point. So have you read the Criminal Code of Canada?
DON CHERRY
I thought you might ask me that. So I brought my copy with me. Sorry about the beer stains.
RON MACLEAN
It's very big, and in both official languages I notice.
DON CHERRY
Yeah, it's the consolidated version.
RON MACLEAN
Are the beer stains also in both languages?
DON CHERRY
Yeah, but I can't say which beer on account of contractual obligations.
RON MACLEAN
Are your contractual obligations covered in the Criminal Code?
DON CHERRY
I'll hit you with this thing, then you won't be such a wise guy.
RON MACLEAN
But will I know the Criminal Code afterwards?
DON CHERRY
Keep quiet a minute. I want to take you to the part about "Misleading Justice"...
RON MACLEAN
That's sounds serious.
DON CHERRY
Yeah, that's why it's in the Criminal Code, Part 4 Section 139:
Obstructing justice
139. (1) Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice in a judicial proceeding,
(a) by indemnifying or agreeing to indemnify a surety, in any way and either in whole or in part, or
(b) where he is a surety, by accepting or agreeing to accept a fee or any form of indemnity whether in whole or in part from or in respect of a person who is released or is to be released from custody,
is guilty of
(c) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or
(d) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Idem
(2) Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner other than a manner described in subsection (1) to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
RON MACLEAN
That's pretty scary.
DON CHERRY
Yeah, well it's gonna be scary like dealing with head shots in the NHL, assuming those guys get their act together.
RON MACLEAN
So how are you saying that the obstruction of justice has got anything to do with the Conservatives?
DON CHERRY
Well, I'll have to say this carefully....
RON MACLEAN
Good idea....
DON CHERRY
If you look at the comments of the Chair of the Military Police Complaints Commission in adjourning the recent proceedings October 14, 2009...
RON MACLEAN
Which you happen to have with you...
DON CHERRY
...only in English, but I've got the beer stains in both languages, but what I wanna read you - where the beer practically stuck the pages together - at page 243, line 9, is where the Chair, Peter Tinsley, says:
"In such circumstances, notwithstanding establishment and empowerment by Parliament, experience to date in this matter has demonstrated that when the government decides not to cooperate there is no equality of arms. Indeed, herein the essential cooperation of the government has become a much-distorted concept as discussed earlier in this decision, seemingly Kafkaesque.
"It would seem that some of the key lessons of the Somalia experience from which this Commission arose wherein accusations, whether well founded or not, were fuelled by a total lack of transparency, have not been learned."
RON MACLEAN
I think we discussed that a few weeks back, you were asking who Kafka was...
DON CHERRY
Yeah, I know, he was a European, but once you get into it, it seems pretty clear that the Department of Justice was jerking the Commission's chain for a year, and holding up the proceedings by claiming it couldn't release evidence under Sections 38.01 and 38.02 of the Canada Evidence Act because of National Security.
RON MACLEAN
...and the problem with that is?
DON CHERRY
All the guys on the Military Police Complaints Commission have better security clearances and military qualifications than the Minister of Justice and the Minister of National Defence.
RON MACLEAN
So you're saying the Department of Justice is stalling?
DON CHERRY
I'm not a lawyer, but it looks that way to me. But stalling in a judicial proceeding is - and I call' em the way I see 'em - Obstruction of Justice as stated in Section 139 of the Criminal Code.
RON MACLEAN
...and the guy responsible for the Department of Justice...is the Attorney General of Canada...
DON CHERRY
The Honourable Rob Nicholson...
RON MACLEAN
....who appointed Justice Iacobucci...
DON CHERRY
Now you're catching on.
RON MACLEAN
So who investigates the Attorney General of Canada when obstruction of justice is alleged? It's practically impeachment or something....
DON CHERRY
What we need at this point is a constitutional lawyer.
RON MACLEAN
So we'll see if we can find one. There's sure to be one at a Leafs game.
DON CHERRY
I don't think that's a good idea. Any constitutional lawyer who's a Leafs fan won't be in a reasonable frame of mind.
RON MACLEAN
So maybe Montreal or Ottawa, but in the meantime, it's so long from me, Ron MacLean, and Don Cherry here on House of Commons Night in Canada
DON CHERRY
I find it hard to believe you never read the Criminal Code.
RON MACLEAN
I never got past the CHA rule book.
DON CHERRY
That explains a lot.
